"I started criticizing the war in Iraq before he did"

At a recent event, when speaking about her vote to go to war in Iraq, Senator Clinton said her standard - "I made a considered judgment, I didn't make a speech, I made a decision and it was a decision based on my best assessment on what would be in the interest of our country at that very uncertain time" - statement (which shows that she had terrible judgment but that's not the point of this  post) but then went on to say this...

"I started criticizing the war in Iraq before he did."

source

That's quite a remarkable statement to make since his stance against the war and his warnings about what would happen took place before she voted to give Bush the authority to go to war. I mean - technically - he was criticizing the war before it started - at least as far as the record as I know it shows...

So what's this all about? Desperation, a misstatement, or is there a quote of her criticizing the Iraq war before she voted for it?



Display:


Re: "I started criticizing the war in Iraq (2.00 / 1)

shes lying


by aaaa05 on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 11:40:01 AM EST

typical lies about Clinton (1.50 / 2)

she did not vote to go to war.  Start there....

she is right, good for her for standing up to Obama's bullshit.


DON'T COUNT THE VOTES, DON'T COUNT THE VOTES.... Obama and the Obamaettes... spring 2008
by TeresaINPennsylvania on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 11:43:18 AM EST

Iraq War Resolution (2.00 / 1)

It's right there in the name.

There is a reason her marks on honesty are so low. But please tell your candidate to keep pushing ridiculous assertions.


by DSloth on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 11:46:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Its true.. I remember.. (none / 0)

Maybe a lot of Obama's fans don't but I do. And it was reported in the media. Hilary expressed lots of criticism of the idea of Bush going into Iraq instead of focusing on AlQuaeda. maybe it had something to do with the longtime family friendship between his family and the BinLadens - and the Saudi leadership. I don't know.

But Bush ws fixated on Iraq from Day 1 of his Presidency. Long before Sept 11. (Maybe Saddam was blackmailing him or something?)

Lets not forget also that Saddam was a vicious killer who had killed more than 1 MILLION of his own people. And that we had originally helped put him there, so we shared some of the fault for his being there.

How soon we forget!

GENOCIDE IN IRAQ
The Anfal Campaign Against the Kurds
A Middle East Watch Report
Human Rights Watch

http://www.hrw.org/reports/1993/iraqanfa l/

Shaking Hands with Saddam Hussein:
The U.S. Tilts toward Iraq, 1980-1984

National Security Archive Electronic Briefing Book No. 82
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAE BB82/


http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Ep isode.aspx?sched=1242
Confused by the 'Bailout' Lies?
Listen to NPR's The Giant Pool of Money
by architek on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 12:16:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Its true.. I remember.. (none / 0)

Perhaps you can find a source to back up the claim that she was critical of the war before she voted for it.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 12:20:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So which argument are you making? (2.00 / 1)

That she opposed the war or that she was right to support it?

Nothing you've said has addressed the mendacity of her actual quote.


by DSloth on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 12:33:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: typical lies about Clinton (2.00 / 1)

She's right that she criticized the war before Obama? What's your proof?


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 11:50:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

She didn't vote to go to war? (2.00 / 1)

Then what the hell is the "authorization to go to war with Iraq" vote called? Hillary has said numerous times that she voted for the war and that if you don't like it, find another candidate. I have.

Go Obama!


by regina1983 on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 12:01:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: typical lies about Clinton (none / 0)

"If the Senate hadn't given the president the go-ahead, I wouldn't be here trying to explain why I VOTED FOR THE WAR," said Clinton.'

http://politics.propeller.com/story/2007 01/28/clinton-gets-mixed-reviews-in-iow a

She admits that she voted for the war so lets end the talking point that she didn't.


by DreamsOfABlueNation on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 12:27:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "I started criticizing the war in Iraq (none / 0)

they both lie on this issue

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-chec ker/2008/01/clinton_vs_obama_on_iraq.htm l

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-chec ker/2007/11/obama_blurs_definition_of_co mb.html


by colebiancardi on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 11:44:12 AM EST

Nice attempt at equivalency (2.00 / 2)

but only one of them can have opposed the war first, and unless you've totally sublimated your will to Hillary you know who that candidate is.


by DSloth on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 11:53:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "I started criticizing the war in Iraq (2.00 / 2)

I'm not sure how they can both lie about who started criticizing the war first...


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 11:55:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

She just can't help herself. (2.00 / 2)

She'll never admit to having made a mistake, or not being perfectly positioned on any issue.


by DSloth on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 11:44:15 AM EST

She's not a narcissist.. (none / 0)

She admits it when she makes a mistake, unlike Obama..


http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Ep isode.aspx?sched=1242
Confused by the 'Bailout' Lies?
Listen to NPR's The Giant Pool of Money
by architek on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 12:17:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama has admitted plenty of mistakes. (2.00 / 2)

Thankfully he's never failed on such a collossal error of judgement as the IWR.


by DSloth on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 12:28:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She's not a narcissist.. (2.00 / 1)

Unlike Obama how? Please be specific.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 12:30:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

total hogwash (none / 0)

She's admitted several mistakes.


by Trickster on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 01:50:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "I started criticizing the war in Iraq (2.00 / 2)

however, she did on her floor speech in 2002, criticize Bush and warned him this was not an authorization for war.  

My vote is not, however, a vote for any new doctrine of pre-emption, or for uni-lateralism, or for the arrogance of American power or purpose -- all of which carry grave dangers for our nation, for the rule of international law and for the peace and security of people throughout the world.

So it is with conviction that I support this resolution as being in the best interests of our nation. A vote for it is not a vote to rush to war; it is a vote that puts awesome responsibility in the hands of our President and we say to him - use these powers wisely and as a last resort. And it is a vote that says clearly to Saddam Hussein - this is your last chance - disarm or be disarmed.

http://clinton.senate.gov/speeches/iraq_ 101002.html

but I guess in the age of soundbites and instant gratification, for some people, this might be too much to absorb in one sitting.


by colebiancardi on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 11:46:55 AM EST

Re: "I started criticizing the war in Iraq (2.00 / 1)

Well in 2003 she said this:

"I was one who supported giving President Bush the authority, if necessary, to use force against Saddam Hussein."

http://www.cfr.org/publication/6600/rema rks_by_senator_hillary_rodham_clinton_tr anscript.html


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 11:51:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

He's cut and pasted from the speech creatively (none / 0)

A more telling quote:

This is a very difficult vote. This is probably the hardest decision I have ever had to make -- any vote that may lead to war should be hard -- but I cast it with conviction


by DSloth on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 11:59:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's cut and pasted from the speech creatively (2.00 / 1)

he is a she - and I did not c&p creatively.  I put the two passages in separate blockquotes so that readers would know that they are not continuous.  And I posted the link to the entire speech.

you've got some friggin' nerve, when I took the time to make sure I would not get comments like you just posted.


by colebiancardi on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 12:04:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's cut and pasted from the speech creatively (none / 0)

Thanks for your input but what you posted doesn't seem to change anything.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 12:10:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's cut and pasted from the speech creatively (none / 0)

Apoligies on the gender assumption, I immidiately regretted it, am still getting used to a forum without an edit option.

Your quote however do not suggest that she didn't think her vote would lead to war when it was plain she knew it would. True it wasn't a formal declaration of war, but congress hasn't passed one of those in 60 years. It was clear at the time to all involved that it would be Congress' last word on the subject, if ever there was a time to take a stand against the war it was at that moment. Many more principled politicians did just that.


by DSloth on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 12:38:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's cut and pasted from the speech creatively (none / 0)

How about the one where she links Iraq to Al Qaeda.

"He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members"

Where she got that info from I have no idea.  At least she had the honesty to add the caveat the "apparently" they had nothing to do with September 11.


by DreamsOfABlueNation on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 12:31:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "I started criticizing the war in Iraq (2.00 / 1)

"- this is your last chance - disarm or be disarmed."

I should point out that other than the administration, monitors said they thought he was disarmed.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 11:52:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

She's lying even if you accept that (2.00 / 3)

Even if you accept a vote authorizing the war as criticizing the war (a politician wanting to have it both ways if I've ever heard it), she's still lying.

She said those words on the Senate floor 10/10/02. Here is Obama 10/02/02.

I don't oppose all wars.

After September 11th, after witnessing the carnage and destruction, the dust and the tears, I supported this Administration's pledge to hunt down and root out those who would slaughter innocents in the name of intolerance, and I would willingly take up arms myself to prevent such a tragedy from happening again.

I don't oppose all wars. And I know that in this crowd today, there is no shortage of patriots, or of patriotism. What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other arm-chair, weekend warriors in this Administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.

What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income - to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression.

That's what I'm opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics.

Now let me be clear - I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power. He has repeatedly defied UN resolutions, thwarted UN inspection teams, developed chemical and biological weapons, and coveted nuclear capacity.

He's a bad guy. The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him.

But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military a fraction of its former strength, and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history.

I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a US occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of al-Qaeda.

While Hillary Clinton was going along with Bush (likely for reasons of ambition since while a majority of Democratic Senators voted against the war, the majority of those up for re-election or with Presidential ambitions voted for it)  and voting for the war, Barack Obama was taking the politically unpopular but completely correct positions about the war.  He foresaw the quagmire, he knew Iraq was not a threat and he understood it was being pushed by an ideological cabal for their own ends.


McCain = Iraq. John McCain = overturn Roe.
by PantsB on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 12:08:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Clinton tells LIES. She is a LIAR. (none / 0)

Clinton has lied continually about her record and her past positions, but this whopper is generating some real flak for her, and rightly so.

She lies like a Republican. Bush is a liar. He lied repeatedly about Iraq. Cheney lies, world without end. Rove devises lies for a living. These people are all liars, because they tell deliberate falsehoods that are calculated to gain them some political advantage. If we had a less morally and intellectually bankrupt media corps, these falsehoods would be called what they are in simple moral terms, LIES.

We need to take back the language. The MSM idiots have perpetuated the degradation of language until no lie told by a public figure is now EVER called a god-damn lie in public. It's allowed to pass as a "misstatement," the liar "misspoke," or was "factually incorrect," or "revised" a past position, or some such insulting twaddle. These people are LIARS. They don't "misspeak," they deliberately LIE to us. When is somebody going to call them what they are in public? Clinton needs to be called out as a liar, the same as Bushco.


Impeach Bush and Cheney.
by urban shocker on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 01:33:24 PM EST

Not surprised to see this from you (2.00 / 1)

This diary takes Clinton's remarks blatantly out of context.  In her actual remarks, it is quite clear that she meant that she started criticizing the war from the Senate before Obama did:

When Sen. Obama came to the Senate he and I have voted exactly the same except for one vote. And that happens to be the facts. We both voted against early deadlines. I actually starting criticizing the war in Iraq before he did.

In case that wasn't clear enough, she immediately acknowledged his 2002 speech in the next sentence.


by Trickster on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 01:48:02 PM EST

Re: Not surprised to see this from you (none / 0)

That's a non-sensical parsing.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 02:00:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Whatever (2.00 / 1)

You presented one cherry-picked sentence as if there were no context at all.  That's blatantly dishonest.


by Trickster on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 02:15:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Whatever (none / 0)

Your attempt to parse something in an irrelevant manner is what's dishonest.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 02:19:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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